Thursday, December 18, 2014

The wisdom of Facebook commenters

        As I write this, there are 184 FB comments attached to the Coast to Coast announcement of Richard Hoagland's return to the show last night. Very likely more to come, but the trend is obvious. Even the very few supportive comments don't take Hoagland's opinions seriously, but are more in the nature of  "very unlikely, but we should keep an open mind" (and regular readers will know what I think about the "open mind" business.)

Here's a more representative selection:

"What a crock." --Lonnie Rowe

"That guy is a F-ing crackpot. His "theories" hold as much fact and are as real as Santa Claus" --Chad Garcia

"Mount Sharp is an ancient habitation. Good grief no wonder the guy's broke." --Vince Denny

"I think Hoagland is off his meds - again." --Michael Lonergan

"Hoagland...a legend in his own mind." --Steve Knox

"Hoagland would find man made structures on his own pile of *#@&." --Manny Ochoa

"Hoagland  is a real ego maniac and a fraud ! He loves the sound of his own voice. He needs to go away" --Jill Gartland

"Here we go again,no wonder nasa banned him,he is batshit crazy..." --Richard A. Martin

"Ridiculous. Is this guy on crack? Where do they find these delusional people? Where?" --David Jefferson Pearcy

"This guy is full of crap." --Joel BiJeaux

"Is it just me, or does Hogland take FOREVER to get to a point?" --Rance Sullivan

"But "I have analyzed all the data" and you sir are nuts. Has anything he ever said come to truth or actually been proven in "real" science?" --Matt Smith

"This guy is a delusional idiot" --Mark Miller

Lazy blogger?
        I pull out those quotes not to shirk the hard graft of actually writing this blog, but to point out that Hoagland has really lost his audience. It isn't just me and my fellow skepti-bloggers who see that the Emperor has no clothes, scientifically speaking. I heard all of last night's show, and I do have my own comments. The main topic is comet 67P, the ESA spacecraft Rosetta that rendezvoused with it, and the lander Philae that touched down on it.

        First, he was absolutely correct in reporting that the Philae lander is not dead. As soon as comet 67P's orbit brings it into a different orientation with the Sun (and closer to it,) there's a very good chance that the lander's solar panels will get enough energy to wake the spacecraft's systems up again. Hoagland isn't wrong about everything.

        He was wrong, however, in saying that 67P has no ice. True, the Rosetta orbiter wasn't able to see any surface ice as it approached, but when the lander attempted to use its MUPUS hammer to probe the surface, it encountered hard ice pretty soon. It looks as though the surface dust is perhaps as much as 20cm thick, overlaying a core that is predominantly ice and gets more porous toward the center of the comet. I refer you (and Hoagland, if he's reading) to the ESA blog posted a month ago, headlined Philae settles in dust-covered ice. There's been a lot of fuss about the HD ratio in 67P's water (that's the deuterium fraction, much higher than Earth water.) At a temperature of -153°C, does anyone think this water could be liquid?

        I laughed into my pillow when Hoagland spoke of "artificial gravity machines" inside the comet, and laughed again when he mentioned his buddy in Los Angeles who's an ace at digital image enhancement. This guy, according to Hoagland, has developed a way of removing "the blurring mask that NASA and ESA superimpose on all the space pictures" (not verbatim). Oh dear. Pure paranoia, that one.

        A bit later, Hoagland excitedly mentioned that comet 67P is sending out audio signals -- a song, he called it. Here's what he's talking about.  He forgot to mention that, to make this audible, the frequency was artificially raised by a factor of at least 1000. The true frequency of these magnetic oscillations is around 50 millihertz (that's one beat per 20 seconds.) Hoagland is either dishonest or ignorant. Maybe both.

Worthless imagery
        The images Hoagland provided to C2C to accompany his interview had no credibility whatsoever. Skyscrapers my ass. Take another look at this one, that Hoagland thinks is a tramway on Mars (he actually means a cable car, like the Sandia tramway in Albuquerque.)

        I'm obliged to another commenter -- this time from the Coastgab forum -- for pointing out what the tramline actually is. If you look at the whole strip that this image is part of, it's totally obvious that this is a boundary between two of the CCD elements in the HiRISE instrument.The line extends well outside the feature nicknamed Waffle City.



        The commenter was Georgie for President 2216, who also posted "It's a sad day for C2C when Richard C. Hoagland is the biggest draw in months." Thanks, GfP. The bottom line here is that Richard C. Hoagland, the unemployed museum curator, is pig ignorant. When even Farcebook commenters know it's true, it's true.

51 comments:

Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost said...

I had just about drifted off to sleep when he jolted me awake by mentioning the Martian tramway. That's utter nonsense, because an advanced civilization like theirs would have built a monorail for tourist who wanted to view the ancient ruins.

Bill Belcher said...

Just wait for the next big thing from RCH. It will be from the Martians living in there underground cities producing methane venting into the atmosphere.

MarsRevealer said...

DESTROYING HOAGLAND'S TRAM LINES?! ... OR... CONFIRMING HIS SECRET CODE DOWN THROUGH TIME??
On coast To Coast am last night (December 17th, 2014) Richard Hoagland presented EVIDENCE of TRAM LINES on a risen mound of INTRIGUE! Claiming it was not scan lines, or image false artifact but a REAL artifact of Martian construction. basicly claiming it was a 'CABLE' car, that was somehow left intact. Hmmmmmm. I am NO DUMMY! I study Mars & it's many various images put forth & I must say that I say WTF is Hoagland doing here?? HE OBVIOUSLY SEES & KNOWS THE OBVIOUS that it is NOT at all what he claims regards to the surface, in what he says about this image & it's features he claims on the surface, is tram lines.
Yet, somehow I KNOW what this is, & what he REALLY is doing by saying & using this image to present what he was trying to say, IN CODE, TO SOMEONE WHO SEES IT! ..... ME!
So anyway, I went looking for other images showing this risen ancient mound I say looks more like an ancient construction which also may have been domed, or walled in the least. It's structures long lost through ages of time & I guess.. WAR!
So as I said, I went & found other images showing this feature & I KNEW THERE, by what I found, Hoagland used this image on the surface, to CODE what he really wants to be seen behind the surface! That show last night was very interesting & I will indeed be utilizing it to help show THE BIG PICTURE Hoagland is really referring it to... IN CODE!
Because what I found shows EVIDENCE, that these images are stitched together & overlap creating line markings running through the entire image swath, that can also be seen in other sections of the same image swath where we can still see the same things going on. In another image we have NO lines from overlapping issues or what not showing the same features in different shading even, showing NO LINES!! NO SPLITTING... NO... TRAM LINES!
So Hoagland IS NOT STUPID!! I KNOW HIM!! HE KNOWS ME! he knew I believe by what I heard last night, that I will SEE this, & will stay on the PATH OF THESE BREADCRUMBS he lays out on THE SURFACE, for me to EAT with a FORK IN THE ROAD I found while at a fork in the road in TIME, looking forward to that WINE! Hoagkland knows what I am referring to, & I think I now understand that symbology at least that makes connections & yields more information or potential thereof. yes,.. INCLUDING THE SOUL!!
So, look at the various images HIGH REZ images showing that Hoagland MUST SEE & have known that what he was saying on the surface.. is full of.., METHANE! AFTER ALL.. NASA IS SPEAKING ON THE SURFACE! (BULLSHIT MAKES METHANE)...LOL. In code.. Hoagland is... NASA!!!~!
once I am done with Hoagland Playing In NASA's Coded Junk Yard, I will make a Hoagland special from last night's show to condition you all to the 'MARS REVELATION'!! Which was also.. HIS WORDS last night!
(Hoagland Playing In NASA's Coded Junk Yard Pt1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvr5r528yMk
LET'S PLAY!!!
http://www.uahirise.org/ESP_038646_1805
http://viewer.mars.asu.edu/…/ctx/B09_013249_1800_XN_00N200W…
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA18932

expat said...

One other comment from Mars Revealer disallowed. I couldn't understand it.

Dee said...

Hey Gary (Revealer), did you ever see that movie "A Beautiful Mind", the one about John Nash? Or read his biography? You should, like him, really learn to distrust the possible sources of all these "codes" appearing to you and how they might be possibly designed to lead to cul-de-sacs and ever more clue hunts, keeping you busy and distracted. Don't you ever doubt even for one moment if you're being led astray...again? The battle might not be the one you're thinking it is, after all. Even Hoagland has fallen for those Sirens, it seems, as well, drowned in his own European ocean...

Dee

Chris said...

"Here Bill, we've got to get across this lava flow, what do you reckon mate?"

"Well Steve, can't we just go around it, it's lovely and flat?"

"Hmm, well I was thinking something like - and hear me out here Bill, okay - a tram"

"Hahaha, yeah... oh, seriously? A tram. A tram?! We'll need to build tracks!"

"Yeah!"

"Tracks, Steve. Over these 300-400m high ridges"

"Yeah, and?"

"Won't that be really difficult, I mean we tried our best with those glass tunnels and look how wonky they came out, they were terrible, terrible examples of our engineering capabilities for something which was very straightforward"

"Well okay, but I think with some perserverance we can really nail this and make absolutely straight tram tracks right across these half kilometer high undulating lava flows"

"It's going to cost a fortune!"

"Nah, we made a shitload on that mesa real estate, what with the land being so crowded, those skyscrapers really paid off and look how easily we built those!"

"Oh, okay, look Steve I'm still not convinced that the best way to bridge a 2 kilometer wide massively uneven lava flow is using an as-yet uninvented technology from another planet which relies on perfectly flat ground, especially when we could just, like, walk around it in 20 minutes"

"Come over later, I've prepared a PowerPoint about it... actually you haven't seen my projector around have you?"

(names have been changed to protect the identities of the ancient aliens)

Strahlungs Amt said...

Are Bill and Steve the same ancient aliens who thought building a castle on an evaporating coment (which will probably fall into the Sun in a few orbits) to preserve 4 billion year old alien chick-lit was a good idea?

expat said...

Actually Chris, when Hoagland says a tramline he really means a cable-car. As in the Sandia tramway. So the dialog goes:

"Here Bill, we've got to get across this lava flow, what do you reckon mate?"

"Well Steve, can't we just go around it?"

"Hmm, well I was thinking something like - and hear me out here Bill, okay - a cable car"

"Hahaha, yeah... oh, seriously? We'll need a shitload of steel cable. More steel for the supports. A huge fuck-off electric motor. That's a lot of copper, mate!"

"No problem old son. All those iron, nickel and copper mines we've got hidden underground are still running. The underground steel mills and cabling shops are in good shape. Last I heard the strike by the electric motor assemblers had been settled and they're back to work."

"Tell me again, why did we hide all that activity underground?"

"Because in about 2 million years a super-race is going to evolve on that OTHER planet. They're gonna get clever enough to put a high definition telescope in orbit over our heads, and we don't want them to see what we're up to."

"Got it. But won't they see this cable car we're about to build?"

"Oh, I doubt they'd be that good. Unless a real genius evolves over there."

Binaryspellbook said...

So Hoagland has been writing a book about the New Horizons mission to Pluto. Or as he put it contributing a chapter. I Googled it. There are 25 people involved in this book. Can it really be a serious book if they are going to let Hoagland loose on it. He even intimated that we will find "structures of an artificial nature" on Pluto.

He is also writing the follow up to Monuments of Mars and moving house. So he's been too busy for C2C and it's millions of listeners, but not too busy to appear on "Dr" Falkov's internet radio show with its tens of listeners.

He also thinks that when 67P begins out-gassing it will be due to the ruptured fuel and oxygen tanks and carbon dioxide tanks heating up and sublimating into space. He also claimed it could have harboured "millions" of people on board when it was built, obviously by some government. Because a project on this scale would cost prohibitive for private industry.

Then later on when wittering about his HD torsion shite he claims that if you can control this field you can manifest from the aether ANYTHING YOU WANT FOR FREE. So much for prohibitive costs eh Richard ?

He is such a scumbag liar I can barely even stand looking at his smug fucking face anymore.


*ps* Gary, I know Hoagland done you over, ripped you off and had his live in lover pretend to be your primary physician and have you committed to a loony bin. I'd be pissed off too mate. I really would. But Gary, dude, fuck sake man lay off the caps. PLEASE. Because it makes people not want to read your posts.

DJE

Sky Matters said...

It is clear that the castles on 67P were the command post that maneuvered ISON into a precise course for symbolic, ritual, and celebratory purposes. But now I am left with a dilemma: do I want to take a tram ride on Mars or explore castles on the comet?

We should all give Hoagland thanks for opening a universe of possibilities and replacing science with stand up comedy.

Trekker said...

Is this the book you're referring to, Binaryspellbook?

http://www.ancestrybooksmn.com/book/9781583948972

Oh, lord save us!

Binaryspellbook said...

Almost forgot about the Columbia record deal Hoagland claimed he and his brothers and sisters had. Oh yeah and the singing at NBC to get him his first gig there.

Did anyone else latch onto those beauties ? - Surely checkable.

Apart from Hoagland claiming that the tapes were erased by NBC - then later asking people to try and find them ?

The whole shitheap was staged of course. Noory clearly following Hoagland's instructions and feeding him lines.

expat said...

Ho-ho, the Pluto collage-book is edited by Richard Grossinger.

Grossinger was the original publisher of "The Monuments of Mars" after Simon & Shuster reverted Hoagland's contract for non-performance. Grossinger wrote at some length about his pal Hoagland in 2010. Here's an excerpt:

Hoagland is a unique mixture of amateur scientist, genius inventor, scam artist, and performer, blending true, legitimate speculative science with his own extrapolations, tall tales, and inflations. He is a brilliant and glorious myth-maker and a evidence-based scientist at the same time.

Dee said...

Great link Expat, thanks! The guy makes sense.

This is also a fun quote from there: After beginning as Mr. NASA, Esquire, over two decades he morphed into a David Bowie-like creature...

I'd personally call it a more shamanic role with his application of "superdimensional" energies to address the word's pressing problems combined with all the excitement he musters in those gathered around. Or as Grossinger puts it: "almost a blend of Jimmy Swaggart and Carl Sagan".

Sometimes I can't help but to admire the intricate web Richard wove. It's a form of magic in its own right.

Dee

FlightSuit said...

Speaking as a native San Franciscan, I must say the type of "cable car" where you're hanging from a cable is not enough. I demand proper San Francisco-style cable cars on Mars! Cable cars are always a big draw for out-of-towners, and what with the space tourism industry really getting ready to heat up, I think the red planet needs a proper cable car network.

expat said...

I can see it all, Flight. In fact I hereby christen that wormy feature to the North "Nob Hill." DING-DING!!

Strahlungs Amt said...

@ Trekker,

From that link (it gets nuttier as it goes on). Note the credits.

Dana Wilde: Pluto on the Borderlands;
Richard Grossinger: Pluto and The Kuiper Belt;
Article by Richard Hoagland;
J. F. Martel: Pluto and the Death of God;
James Hillman: Hades;
** rest of list snipped for clarity **


So all of them have a speech prepared except Hoagie. Why is that not a surprise?

Stay Tuned....

Strahlungs Amt said...

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/

Looking at some of these anomaly pictures, they look like they could be, possibly, maybe, might be artificial objects, remnants of a long dead civilization. Or they could just be rocks.

It seems like Hoagie was betting on them being actual alien objects from the beginning but he never thought about a plan B. Oh well. At least he's got Robin's Homeopathic Apothecary to live on.

Strahlungs Amt said...

Found another "anomaly". On Mikey's page http://mikebara.blogspot.com he has "Mike Bara.com" (with space) on the banner on the top and in the title.

Mikebara.com is registered to some interior designer in Indonesia (do a whois search).

Great move that one.

expat said...

It crossed my mind to buy that domain name when he abandoned it, just to play games. Then I thought that was silly.

jourget said...

Back in 2011 when Dawn arrived at Vesta and in 2012 when Curiosity landed on Mars, one of RCH's big "I've got them now" points was that all his structures, artifacts, and other debris were clearly visible in new unaltered photos NASA was putting out. This was indisputable evidence for imminent disclosure, since this way NASA could cover its ass by claiming it was always putting the real stuff out there and they just hadn't noticed artifacts until the big moment.

Now, he Knows A Guy who can remove the blurring filter that's apparently still there. He really does turn like a weathervane and paints the target wherever it works for him at the time. Seriously, what a clown.

It's sounding like the move was an unplanned event, based on his grumpy "we HAD to move" comments on Coast and other radio shows. Financial trouble in New Mexico? Maybe it's time to finish the book as fast as possible and put out another call for "travel" funds on Facebook to measure another unprecedented alignment.

expat said...

Ha-ha, last time he tried hitting up the FB disciples it didn't go too well. Last time I checked his page I saw definite signs that the faithful were no longer so faithful, as the time since the last input from The Master stretched into years...

Captain Novvak said...

Where could he move that's cheaper than New Mexico; Tijuana? He got laid of from his day job at Sandia Labs, so like sour grapes, he blew the whistle on them for illicit, nuclear waste disposal.

expat said...

An internet search suggests the move was from Placitas to Deming. Deming is almost into Mexico. One thinks rattlesnakes and tumbleweed.

Captain Novvak said...

Deming area would appear to be a deer etched into the land by ancient aliens.

Binaryspellbook said...

Deming could well be the move location.

It's in "Luna" county.

The town motto is "An Enterprise Community."

It's in the data. Join the dots.

jourget said...

"Enterprise" may be in the town's motto, but another piece of relevant data might be Deming's median household income of $20,081 versus Placitas' $60,597.

expat said...

Zabasearch returns an address -- google streetview shows the house. NB not guaranteed correct info.

Trekker said...

Are these modified trailer homes?

expat said...

I fear so. But again I emphasize, this is not reliable information. Think of it as a rumor.

expat said...

DISCLAIMER: I am not gathering information with intent to harass anybody. I'm just using my knowledge of internet searching to respond to a bone fide topic of interest to my commenters.

Binaryspellbook said...

From the same site it also states that Hoagland worked at;

Hoagland Oil Service Inc.
Amazon.com Inc

expat said...

Once again, not reliable data.

Binaryspellbook said...

Indeed Expat. Not reliable data.

A rumour perhaps. I'd rather prefer to call it "a model."

In this model Richard C. Hoagland has shot himself in the foot so many times that even his most loyal of disciples are beginning to re-evaluate their faith in the "Big Man."

Coupled with the flurry of 2012 failures right across the gamut of pseudo-science predictions, Hoagland now finds himself bereft. Not only from his former acolytes, but also from his staple income from woo-conferences and Coast to Coast radio as science advisor.

Quite simply his shite talking, nonsensical, unscientific balderdash has led him down a cul-de-sac.

It had to happen. After the Elenin fiasco it simply had to. The claims regarding comets being ancient spaceships, Obama being a member of the Shem Su Hor, and a reincarnation of Horus must surely have set even the most loyal minds loose on the possibility that Hoagland was simply making stuff up.

Now he's telling us 67P is artificial, and that there are skyscrapers on it. He's also trying to weasel his way into the safer (cannot be disproved) theories regarding consciousness. The cynical among us see that as simply another way of generating income by making himself available for the sort of conferences that like "that sort of thing." Conferences that the likes of David Wilcock prefer.

He's lost it folks, and I must stress that I take no pleasure in saying that. I had planned on blogging about his relationship with Grossinger, the Pluto Book, and the allegation that he wrote the majority of Monuments of Mars from a prison cell. But I simply cannot kick a man when he's down. As much as I hate what he does, and despise his mauling of real science. It is not within me to keep swinging punches.

I'll instead wait and see what pans out for him.

DJE

Binaryspellbook said...

jourget said, " He really does turn like a weathervane and paints the target wherever it works for him at the time. Seriously, what a clown."

Let me add one more thing to reinforce what jourget said. On Art Bell Dark Matters a caller asked Hoagland why domes would be necessary on the Moon. Hoagland (correctly) pointed out that the Moon's gravity is not sufficient to retain an atmosphere. The caller then asked "why couldn't they (I assume "they" refers to the type II civilisation Hoagland claims once inhabited the solar system and had access to unlimited energy, immortality and the ability to manifest anything instantly from the aether via Hoagland's proposed "torsion field,)" - simply have used artificial gravity to overcome this problem. ?"

Hoagland then responded "because perhaps it's not possible."

There you have it. Classic Hoagland.

Dee said...

Binary SB: "There you have it. Classic Hoagland".

Yes! He's the full incarnation of the ancient "having your cake and eat it too" and always at Christmas morning to boot.

The "model" is just not adding up. Did they have unlimited energy or did they need domes and cables to transport all the Unlimited Ones? Do we have perhaps multiple civilizations? Or a class system with only the upper ruling class having all the access to the Magic while the dirty masses would be left to all the crappy domes and cable trams?

And exactly here would seem some space to develop some detailed theory of how this ancient civilization was organized. Then draw a map where in the solar system they could have lived, which type of structures you would expect and which not. Then study the incoming data to see if it shows up. A priori. Eliminate!

I mean, that wouldn't be science perhaps but at least following some of its core principles. Now they are left with hysterically expecting what might be ancient technology under every rock, behind every mount, hidden in every secretly modified public image. But that is mental disease! Not even playful speculation anymore.

Dee

Binaryspellbook said...

Dee: " A priori. Eliminate! "

Oh yes indeed, and how the tricky one loves to use the fact that Dr Tom van Flandern cited "a priori" when he did his original face on Mars analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0mSKd9HeM

Captain Novvak said...

What did Hoagy know, and when did he know it?


http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/isis-hacks-u-s-news-site-we-are-already-here/

“You’ll see no mercy, infidels. We are already here, we are in your PCs, in each house, in each office. With Allah’s permission we begin with Albuquerque.”







That was the ominous message posted by someone purporting to be affiliated with the Islamic State who apparently hacked the app of New Mexico’s largest newspaper, the Albuquerque Journal, and threatened Albuquerque residents on Wednesday morning.

The posting was accompanied by the headline, “Christmas will never be merry any longer” and a dark photo of a figure wearing a black-and-white checkered head scarf. Text in the middle of the photo read “CyberCaliphate” and “I love you isis” [sic].

The post also stated, “While the us [sic] and its satellites are bombing the Islamic State, we broke into your home networks and personal devices and know everything about you.”

The hacker told Albuquerque residents, “You will look around more often, will call up your children more often, think of your security more often, but that won’t help you.”

Strahlungs Amt said...

http://rt.com/news/218419-mars-coffin-ufo-nasa/

They found a coffin on Mars now. And an iguana.

Strahlungs Amt said...

I didn't spot it the first time but Obama's head is in that link too. Maybe Hoagland was right all these years.

Stay Tuned....

jourget said...

Hey, expat, did you listen to Hoagland's latest appearances on Robin's radio show live, or did you find them online somewhere? It's a masochistic move given Robin's hosting style, but I was wondering. Much appreciated.

expat said...

I took it live. I don't think a re-run is available anywhere.

jourget said...

No worries; thanks anyway. I've found some of their earlier narcissistic rambles on youtube, but I hadn't found the latest ones.

Dee said...

That's like the sound of the final onset of obscurity, clapping its only remaining hand...

Dee

Strahlungs Amt said...

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-conservatives-despise-neil-degrasse-tyson-5-times-scientist-provoked-right-wing-hissy

Here's a nice little article on the "Science Choad", as Mikey loves to call him. Seems like he's pissing off a lot of right wingers.

Strahlungs Amt said...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153457292878709&set=pcb.10153457293328709&type=1&theater

The Pseudoscience Choad's latest pics.

Priceless. :)

expat said...

I think that's Dave.

(The science fiction choad?)

James Concannon said...

I wonder what Mario Cuomo ever did to deserve Mike Bara's tweet "BIH Cuomo."

Wait, I think I know. Cuomo once bad-mouthed Saint Reagan. Pathetic, Mike.

jourget said...

Looks like Hoagland's getting his work done for him by the Planetary Society these days:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/bill-dunford/new-views-of-ancient-martian.html

That's an article from December 8 taking us through a few recent HiRISE pics. Conveniently, it contains that roughly circular geological feature with the three "tram lines" RCH went on about at length on Coast on December 17.

He's also mentioned posts by Emily Lakdawalla on several occasions in 2014. I think it's safe to say he's a regular visitor. I guess in this day and age he's too lazy even to glance through the archives for his own "anomalies". The days of storming the NSSDC as a group and claiming triumphs are truly over.

expat said...

Wow -- beautiful.


...and I'm not talking about Emily.

Sky Matters said...

How can there be team lines after the cydonians lost a nuclear war?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11/24/life-on-mars-nuclear-war_n_6209898.html